Civilization newspaper, designed by Richard Turley

Six months ago Richard Turley sent a disgruntled email. Earlier that day he had visited his neighborhood newsstand and came out empty handed. He was in the mood for a magazine that spoke to the everyday experience of living in New York City, and found the selection utterly wanting. So he did what many other independent publishers have done before him: he decided to make the magazine he wanted to read. He emailed his friends to share the news.

One person responded: Lucas Mascatello. The two met while working on the infamous No Chill show during Turley’s 2014-15 MTV era, when he was the network’s senior vice president of visual storytelling and deputy editorial director. It was during that time that Turley cemented his reputation for producing some of the most exciting, experimental work to hit mass media, as well for cherry picking talented up-and-comers and bringing them into the fold (prior to MTV he took a noteworthy turn as creative director of Bloomberg Businessweek). His new publishing project would be no different. Shortly after Mascatello signed on, filmmaker Mia Kerin joined the group, bringing an even fresher perspective and a necessary woman’s point of view.

Turley is currently an executive creative director at Wieden + Kennedy, but his most experimental work is arguably reserved for his side projects, the latest of which is Civilization, a newspaper that describes itself as a “future history” of New York City. The 16-page broadsheet is packed with no less than 80 stories, all squeezed into (and spilling out of) columns that run up against one another like a Times Square traffic jam. The pieces range in format from interpretive data graphics and abstract lists to longform interviews, all of which are bracing, often brutally honest accounts that are at once hyperpersonal and entirely relatable. It’s easy to get lost among the pages (full disclosure: I wrote a short item for the paper, but even then it took me several minutes to actually locate it, squeezed against a margin and shoved into the centerfold). Civilization somehow manages to feel both claustrophobic and expansive. In other words, it reads like it feels to live in New York City.

That feeling extends to the language and tone of voice, which are loose and casual; the paper feels like real people are talking to you, and the Q&A-style interviews read like direct transcriptions. They’re not, of course. Edits have been made, but the style is preserved. With that style in mind, we spoke with Turley and Mascatello about how designing Civilization was like putting together a “lazy,” “voyeuristic”  jigsaw puzzle that solves the riddle: “How much shit can you get on a page?” Kerin was unavailable, but she responded to our Civilization-esque Q&A, which runs at the end.

Civilization newspaper, designed by Richard Turley

Richard, how’d it go from having a gripe at the newsstand to starting a paper of your own?
Richard Turley: I just had a gripe and got back to my desk and fired off an email to a number of people.

Is that typical for you when you’re dissatisfied with something?
Turley: Not really actually.

Lucas Mascatello: You’re not a big complainer.

Turley: No. I honestly was more motivated, really. I thought, I just want to do this. I was on my lunch break as well. For me lunch breaks and walking is where I do my thinking and I suppose that’s where I got thinking, ‘Okay, I’ll do it.’ I’ve done a couple of projects recently, like Good Trouble and Mushpit magazine. But I was always just the designer. I was actually quite happy just being a designer. I suppose I’ve never really wanted to have my own thing, but then I genuinely had an idea and it was like, ‘I’ll just do this.’ I knew the finances. It didn’t require me to pick up the phone and try and work out how much it’s going to cost, because I knew how much it was going to cost. That stuff is important to me because there’s always stumbling blocks.

You knew because of your work with The Guardian or Business Week?
Turley: I really learned it working with Mushpit.

Civilization’s Mia Kerin, Richard Turley, and Lucas Mascatello (clockwise)

So you sent those emails around and the two people who emailed you back were Lucas and Mia? How did it go from there?
Turley: Mia comes along a little bit later in the story. Lucas was the only one that actually was down. Do you know what I mean? Everyone goes, ‘Oh, a newspaper, great.’

Mascatello: It wasn’t the first time Richard emailed me and was like, ‘I’m working on something, what do you have going on?’ I knew that he had this momentum and I can be quite manic. I wanted to keep apace with it and make sure it didn’t get away from me. I just assumed it was going to be made. I had a little bit of content ready because I was thinking about making this book with a friend of mine and a lot of that had to do with recording conversations and taping phone calls and stuff. I was just excited about the idea of doing it. I have tried and been involved with so many projects that it’s like, you just do it regardless of whether or not it’ll fail. If you do enough things then one thing will work out.

Turley: The Supermarket Review was the first thing I actually wrote. Then I just started to use some stuff that was on my phone and design around it. That’s when I started to get a sense of it, I suppose.

It’s like a jigsaw puzzle—you’re not really sure what it’s going to look like.

Did you always know it was going to be a broadsheet?
Turley: Yeah. I just wanted it huge. Coming from Good Trouble and understanding a little bit about how it works when there’s quite a lot of information, I wanted to have even more information on it. You’re used to phones. That’s the scale that you’re used to. You might be used to a magazine. But from a design point of view I found it really interesting just to see how much information you could throw at people and still get them to come and engage. There was a little bit of the nerd in me who was just trying to solve that problem. How you can get so much text together, how you can create that feeling you get scrolling through Instagram, scrolling through Twitter, and just seeing if you can find an equivalent on paper.

When I read into the design aesthetic and the design choices, my feeling is that it’s supposed to mimic the experience of walking around New York. It’s crowded and congested, there’s random bits of conversation that you overhear. Like when you go into a shop and somehow now you’re involved in another person’s drama.
Mascatello: That was very early conceit. Before it was anything, it was this maximalist thing. Really early on he was like, how much shit can we get in here? It’s a lazy maximalism; we’re not necessarily working incredibly hard to generate maxed-out content, but it’s laid out in that way.

Is that part of what got you excited about the project, or was it more about the concept?
Mascatello: I just love Richard.

Yeah? So whenever he’s working on something you’re just game?
Mascatello: Well, I don’t want to speak for him, but he was going through something, a transition in his life. And I’d been dumped so it was sort of—in a way I needed some sort of outlet.

You said you’d recently quit drinking, right?
Turley: Drinking, yeah. That was October [2017]. I gave myself a year off drinking alcohol. I think this was a direct consequence of it, quite frankly. I had more time, I had more mental energy. I had more energy all around, actually. Alcohol, just the way that I was dealing with it, or drinking anyway, it was definitely numbing me. I was using it as a way of just dealing with shit, and I dealt with it in that way for 20 years. Then all this stuff started to bubble to the surface, which I didn’t expect. All these things that you put away. I’m a great compartmentalizer. So then to have an outlet for it, meaning there’s a lot of diary in there; there’s a lot of all three of us in there. In the same way as when you’re on your phone walking around the city, to extend that metaphor a bit, here’s a lot of you and what you experience just walking around the street. There’s a lot of personal data. We wanted that.

Mascatello: I think it’s also about shamelessness in a certain way, like coming clean through the paper. Having notes in my phone, things that I was not particularly proud of and that I wouldn’t necessarily say to people, and then realizing pretty early on in my relationship with Richard that I could say kind of anything to him, and then treating the paper as this foil for that. It’s about not caring, ultimately, what people think and putting yourself in a position where you… if you say something in the paper that you feel icky about personally, you just own it later on. If that makes sense.

Mascatello: Sort of, ‘Now that it’s out there I have no choice but to own it.’

Turley: We might be overthinking this a bit, do you know what I mean? I think ultimately what that stuff ended up doing was creating this environment where everything just merges together. What we were doing was just using our phones, using the stuff that we’ve texted or written in our notes as ways to get to the texture of walking around the street. We just had these resources that we were building on our phones that we had access to.

When does Mia come into it?
Turley: Mia was one of the people we interviewed. To complicate the story a little bit here, originally I wasn’t even very interested in people buying it. I was just interested in it as an idea. I thought no one’s going to buy it, but if you can see it out there then it’ll create this illusion of something… It’s like a jigsaw puzzle—you’re not really sure what it’s going to look like.

Oh, you had a whole influencer strategy?
Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just people that I followed, I was kind of interested in. We asked them, but the idea was let’s just see if you can generate this idea of something. It was always going to exist but just as this object, this symbol. I knew this would be kind of interesting. I thought it’d just be a good idea to put it out there. Mia was one of those people. I was aware of Mia for a while. She did one of these (points to a page).

Mascatello: Those are Q&As.

Turley: I don’t know whether people actually get what those are in some ways. We have a number of Q&As where we just ask the same questions in slightly different orders and workshop them around a bit. These are with various people who were asked just because they’re interesting. We don’t just do it because they have followers. Then we met Mia and just thought, ‘Oh my god, we need her in this more.’ It was also at a time when we needed less stories that were really heavily accented towards a kind of toxic masculinity. I think meeting her, she’s like 22 and comes from a completely different perspective. She doesn’t care about newspapers, she doesn’t care about magazines. Yet has this really, really smart energy and this really good nose for what people want. That was… What was that March maybe? March, April. Maybe even as late as May. No it was more in March. It was March.

Mascatello: It was pretty late.

Turley: It was still snowing. When we met, it was snowing.

Mascatello: Mia gets the dynamic and a lot of it is about our group chat and having this space where we can say whatever to each other, and she opted in very quickly. It became this question of now that Mia’s onboard, how can we get her to be as involved as possible? She’s been really smart about things I have no concept of, like social strategy or how to connect with people that I don’t already know. Mia’s very fearless, very good at picking out what’s missing in the paper and going and getting it. At the same time, it’s hard to parse out who did what because Richard will work on an InDesign file and then send it to me and I’ll work in it. Then Mia will send us notes. It’s happening all at the same time. The design process happens as we’re gathering content. Then it’s being edited, and redacted, and worked through constantly.

You’re putting it together in this almost collage—
Mascatello: Yeah. Like I’m working through interviews now and I’ll send screenshots of phrases or moments to Richard or to Mia just to see if they think it’s good.

Turley: It’s like a jigsaw puzzle that you’re not really sure what it’s going to look like. From a design point of viewl, I just try and get everything to fit in. The words would bleed over—

Then you have moments where you’ve broken the column … This is one of my favorite moments here on the front page. You set us up for it right at the start.
Turley: There’s no point of consistency with column. No one cares about this shit, but it’s me designing a quite heavily gridded newspaper without a grid. Everything’s irregular, but that’s quite deliberate really because I think that humanity has got a bit lost. It’s kind of interesting, your eye is forced to look at it in different ways because of all this irregularity. I think it makes the pages a little bit more compelling to look at. I think it’s probably because we’re trained now to look at templates. Whether it’s Instagram, whether it’s an off-the-shelf website, CSS type thing. We’re used to just seeing things in buckets and everything looking kind of the same. By trying to introduce as much irregularity into it as possible, that was completely deliberate.

But you kept the typeface consistent throughout, to keep it from looking too all over the place?
Turley: Yeah. Yeah. There’s only two—no, three typefaces, I suppose. I’m quite boring with typefaces. At the moment there’s all this kind of crazy—

Mascatello: Crazy type.

Turley: Yeah. Let’s just not do that. I don’t want to dismiss it. I get it, and I’m kind of interested in it, I just don’t…

Mascatello: It’s also this thing that I thought a lot about, what the relationship is to style and whether or not the newspaper is cool, or lame, or shameful, or something to be proud of. It’s not made sexy in any way, which is something I like about it. It’s very much an object, but it’s not like a design object that you’d buy in a design store.

That was intentional?
Turley: What?

To make it not sexy or trendy or…
Turley: I think it is sort of trendy in a funny sort of way, but it’s just trendy in a different way. It’s minimal.

That’s funny because he just described it as maximalist.
Turley: Well, I mean minimal in terms of some of the type decisions. It’s just really straightforward and it’s not trying too hard. There’s a minimal approach to a complicated subject and a complicated layout. Minimal is probably the wrong word, but I think it’s also just about trying to get out of the way a little bit. I didn’t even think about it. I just thought that I wanted it to look like a newspaper.

Mascatello: We’ve clearly never had this conversation before.

Can you tell me about this guy on the cover? About your mascot.
Turley: He came from our friend Kurt Woerpel, who used to work at MTV as well. When I was first working on Civilization I thought, ‘Okay, I’ll just sling that on there, that’s cool and interesting.’ Then it just stayed.

Mascatello: A lot of quick decisions became permanent. I have a lot of faith in Richard to design it however he wants. The only visual thing I made are the diagrams, which have nothing to do with the way that it’s laid out. It’s really just weirdly compartmentalized despite the fact that the actual content is so intertextual and incestuous and layered.

Civilization newspaper, designed by Richard Turley

Does the mascot have a name?
Turley: It’s called “The Fallen Angel,” I think.

Fallen Angel?
Mascatello: How about Bill?

Is Bill going to be on the cover of the next issue?
Turley: We’re not 100% certain. I don’t think we’re going to do anything massively different. I think it’s  going to be more of the same but just different stories. And maybe in red.

Mascatello: We were trying to figure out what we did, kind of.

You’re trying to remember how it all came together?
Turley: When I was laying it out the other day, I was thinking, how’d we do that?

Mascatello: How much of what do we need and where do we need it? Trying to figure out what the ingredients are after you’ve made the soup.

Turley: We did a count of the stories. Well, I did because no one else wanted to. There’s about 80 small bits.

It’s a dumb, fun newspaper that people can laugh about and like it. For however long it lasts.

Turley: Forget the metrics, but it’s quite a lot. Some are short, but I keep saying that’s the stuff that we need that actually makes it. The tiny stuff, do you know what I mean?

Mascatello: I don’t know if I’ve had enough trauma in the last three weeks to fill out a paper.

Turley: Getting other people to document stuff and to press record in situations, we’re getting more of that now. Funny conversations. That’s all to build up the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle.

Does it change the way that you approach your normal everyday life, hoping for little serendipitous moments that could be a sidebar?
Turley: Yeah. You’re looking out for interesting people to talk to. It definitely changes it for me.

Mascatello: It makes me a little bit more engaged. It also makes a lot of my compulsions rational. A lot of the stuff that I was doing didn’t have a purpose before, and now I can tell people that it’s for a good reason. Or, for some reason.

Turley: It’s given us something to do, definitely. I don’t think anyone was expecting… well, I thought we’d have like 800 of these things underneath our bed for like 20 years.

How many did you print?
Turley: We printed 2,000. We just printed another 1,000.

Has it become profitable? Or has it paid for itself?
Turley: We’re in the black. We’re not much in the black but we’re—

Mascatello: Proportionately, yeah. Our overhead was low, none of us are taking any money out.

Turley: Well, I put money into it. Basically we’re going to spend everything that we have now on the next one. Profit’s not really… I mean, do I want to do it everyday of my life? No. I feel that that’s the biggest mistake. Scale is why we’re having these problems today. Everyone wants to fucking scale. Everyone wants to have content which impacts everyone.

Mascatello: I’d quite like to sell out and not have to deal with this.

Turley: No. I don’t want any of that. I just want it to be small and minimal and not scaled. I want it to be a little secret. Not a secret, I want it to be something that isn’t prevalent or—

Doesn’t have these high, grand expectations.
Turley: Yeah. It’s just a dumb newspaper. It’s a dumb, fun newspaper that people can laugh about and like it. For however long it lasts.

When the dust settles and we have the apocalypse and all our digital media fails, when nothing works anymore, someone, somewhere will pull this thing out of the rubble and just say, ‘Whoa. New York was crazy in 2018.’

I didn’t really expect it to go anywhere. I saw that the car was moving and I just jumped in it.

Is that your New Yorker accent?
Turley: Yeah.

So the next issue…
Turley: With the first one, we didn’t do a great job broadcasting what it’s all about, it just has these recurring themes throughout the pages. Again, one of my design nerd things around this was that traditionally, with a magazine or newspaper, you’d have a story about the weather and terrorism. You’d get all those stories on the same page. What I was interested in doing is just splitting them up so you have these bits. Actually, sometimes it’s even the same story that you’re reading twice. I wanted people to think, ‘Whoa, I’ve just read that somewhere.’ Do you know what I mean? No, you actually read it here. I want it to be quite a discombobulating experience to read it. You’re not quite sure what you’ve read and if you’ve read something before.

Mascatello: The pleasure is in part being surprised by what’s in it.

As opposed to a theme, which I don’t think lends itself to your paper. I think themes are good for magazines that are super broad and have to reign themselves in. But the point of your paper is that it covers everything.
Mascatello: When you want people to tell you something true or confess something, if you’re prescriptive about it you end up getting a prefabricated thing.

Turley: It’s an interesting point you made about the themes and how magazines have always worked, really, which is that you identify part of a demographic or a subset of a population and just make stuff which is specifically for them. We’ve done that, but our subset is New York, so it’s kind of broad. That was one of the things that we were really keen to do, to make sure that there’s just a bit of everything in there and it’s not just … I don’t want to dismiss flower magazines and stamp collecting magazines because they serve their purpose, but do you know what I mean?

Turley: When I was growing up anyway, magazines and newspapers were really places where you discovered things. You didn’t really know what the next page would be. We wanted to try and create a little bit of that. For me, it was just about loving the way that certain people speak and the way that certain people use language.

 I have a really good picture of this old guy sexting.

One of my favorite things is the way you do your interviews. I found it really refreshing. I’m impressed by interviewers who can maintain a narrative arc as well as a naturally flowing conversation. But what I love is that your interviews are so open-ended, and seem to be printed almost verbatim. It’s very casual and feels like you’re really in the conversation with you and the other person. Was that a conscious choice?
Turley: We knew what we were doing. The secret is, obviously I think, that you just have to keep on asking really dumb questions or be really specific about what you want them to talk about. The best example of that for me was the croissant thing where I just kept on asking him what it felt like to eat a croissant. After I’d done that interview I thought, ‘Oh okay, that’s actually how you do interviews.’ 

Mascatello: We were also talking a lot about oral histories and storytelling. I think ideally we’re getting to a place where you can set people up to tell you something and not necessarily constantly have a dialogue. I think it’s also, for me, just about loving the way that certain people speak and the way that certain people use language. One of the first interviews in Civilization is with a friend of mine who I think speaks beautifully. I was calling him and recording our phone calls and sharing them with Richard because he’s so naturally funny. Having an idea of how to rewrite it or how to formulate it into a narrative or feature to me was antithetical to what I found valuable about it.

Turley: We do edit them. We edit them quite a lot.

There’s one back and forth where one speaker asks the other to repeat himself or to speak up and say something again.
Turley: They’re important moments.

Those are important moments?
Turley: Yeah. Yeah.

Why do you think those are important?
Turley: I think it just signals to a reader that something’s about to happen.

You’re building?
Turley: ‘Could you explain that again?’ I suppose while trying to keep things as natural as we can, the feel of these things. We edit them quite a lot, but we don’t rip them apart.

Are there interviewers who you admire? Or any other magazine or outlet that does interviews well?
Turley: The inspiration for this was the East Village Other, a counterculture newspaper from the ’60s and ’70s. I got a few copies. You can buy them online for about $20. I found a book of their interviews and they’re so casual. I don’t know who was doing them, but they were stoned all the time and it sounds like they’re literally just pressing the tape recorder and chatting.

Letting whatever happens happen.
Turley: Like Timothy Leary would be calling in, on the run from somewhere, just like saying, ‘Yeah, yeah, I’m doing this.’ It’s really exciting to read, even now. It really sets the scene because you don’t really know what’s going on. You just piece stuff together.

Mascatello: It’s definitely a voyeurism thing. I mean, it started with me tapping phone calls. Being the creep.

Mascatello: Yeah. Writing stuff. Staring at people and writing about them. Being a creep. I think a lot of it is just I have a certain sense of humor and Richard thinks it’s funny. Mia thinks it’s funny. I mean, a lot of the paper is kind of tragic, but parts of it I think are funny.

Turley: The voyeurism is completely intentional. The voyeuristic nature of just peering into people’s lives.

Mascatello: You’re always trying to see what people are texting, or if you get a good picture of them typing something really stupid. I have a really good picture of this old guy sexting.

Well, actually when you peak over the shoulders of older people texting usually they’ve got the text size—
Mascatello: The big font.

So big.
Mascatello: Yeah. I used to have my phone set up like that because my vision’s kind of bad and I don’t want to get glasses. I feel like if I get glasses my vision will get worse. For a while everybody could read everything on my phone.

Did you get contacts or glasses?
Mascatello: No, no, no I still can’t really see that well.

That’s got to be a handicap.
Mascatello: I have trouble reading the paper.

You going to do something about that?
Mascatello: It’s on my to do list.

One of the things that’s so great about print is that—online, you’re not going to click on something when you don’t know what you’re going to get. In print, you can turn a page and maybe not think that you’ll be into an article, but there’s really no risk because you just turn the page.
Turley: I was talking about this the other day with someone. With magazines and newspapers you invite people and you’re not entitled to control who you’re inviting into your world.

Mascatello: It does feel a little bit like you’re letting someone into your room. Letting them look through your shit.

Turley: An uninvited person.

Mascatello: Yeah. When I see people open the paper it kind of freaks me out. I still feel kind of anxious when I see people read it.

How are you getting it out right now?
Mascatello: I was freaked out when Richard said we’re going to mail them all ourselves, and he ended up doing most of it because the paper came out when I was in Europe. He had to do all that shit on his own. But if we’re going to traffic in the aesthetic of having it be DIY it kind of has to be DIY. It’s super important to me that we’re not phonies. I don’t want to be a poser. I want it to feel like we made it with our hands. I don’t want it to get away from me.

When can we expect the next one?
Turley: We‘ve got to be finished by the end of July. It’s a summer issue which, well, we’ll see. I don’t think we’re going to send it unless we’re happy with it. We’re not under any obligation from advertisers and stuff like that. We’ll have to figure that out. Might be some bumps in the road but the objective is to get it out… I think actually just to keep up the pressure on ourselves. I think I can do three more this year. One in July, one in like October, and then a Christmas issue or something.

The last time I talked to you about this you said you weren’t sure that you were even going to do a second one. What changed?
Turley: It seems to have hit a nerve. It’s good. It’s been one of the best projects I’ve worked on, just in terms of my own personal self esteem. It’s a very good feeling. I’m not trying to say I have terrible self esteem or anything, but it’s nice when people want to interview you about it. It’s nice when you see people reading it on the subway. Nice when you go into a McNally Jackson and you see people buying it. It’s like, well maybe we should do another. 

Mascatello: It’s like what I was saying before where if you don’t have money to pay for something you just do it and figure out how to pay for it later. We don’t know if we’ll be able to get it out in time for people to leave for their August vacations, but we’re just going to try to do it and then see if it works out.

Turley: The economy of it’s quite manageable. We’re only going to print 1,000 at a time. If suddenly people stop buying, then we‘ll stop doing it.

Mascatello: I don’t even mean specifically money. There’s a quality of setting the challenge and committing to it before you’re really sure whether or not it’s going to happen. And as more people get interviewed and get involved, there’s a community of people affiliated with it, and it becomes in that way, a little bit more stable because we’re able to talk to more people and have people talk to people on our behalf. I didn’t really expect it to go anywhere. I saw that the car was moving and I just jumped in it.

Are there any stories for the next issue that you’re excited about?
Turley: We’ve got an interview with the DA about drug dealers.

Mascatello: I’m excited about all of it.

Turley: We’ve got some dirty sex.

Mascatello: Yeah.

Turley: Some gallery owners.

Dirty sex and gallery owners.
Mascatello: I just hope that people continue to feel like it’s legitimate. I’m excited and nervous about it, I guess. It’s not like I have any pressure now, but there is a markedly different experience of writing it knowing that people might actually read it versus writing it to show Richard how funny this thing is, or to show Mia how weird this situation is.

Turley: I think we’ve got to keep ourselves honest.

Mascatello: That’s sort of what I mean. It’s like you have to continue to not know what you’re doing.

Turley: We’ll see. Maybe the next one will be a disaster and that’ll be it. We’re done. I don’t know. I think there’s something about the process of doing the first one, which is just that we were explorers. Do you know what I mean? We’re seeing what worked. Not exactly in real-time but we were feeling it, working out how to do it ourselves, and keeping that part of what the finished product became gave it a certain energy.

Mascatello: The more I think about it, I don’t particularly care what people think about it. It’s just different thinking about it as something that will actually be a complete thing. It becomes an object. My being divorced from the design process meant that I got to just focus on generating content, not thinking about what it would look like in context.

Do you think that’s going to change?
Mascatello: I’m trying to just be as ignorant as possible about that.

Turley: We’re trying to just… I mean, I don’t know. We’ve done about a quarter of the next one and I think it‘s going to be pretty similar.

Mascatello: The group dynamic has stayed the same. The three of us are still chatting a lot. I think as long as that’s happening I’ll be excited about doing it.

Well, thanks guys. Thanks for chatting.
Turley: No, that’s fine. Thank you for being interested.


Now Richard Turley answers six dumb questions that he asked people in Civilization.

What makes a good croissant? 
I’m into croissants. I get them from anywhere, but the best ones are at Aux Merveilleux de Fred on 8th Ave. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. They’re liars. Like this whole Bien Cuit shit. Fuck that. Well done? It’s a croissant, it shouldn’t be well done. It should be done perfectly. It should be buttery and doughy, with a gentle flake. Not fucking well done.

What are you listening to at the moment?
Iceage, Lump, Wire, Method Man, Tricky, Jane’s Addiction, Daniel Avery, The Orb, and this old R&S compilation album, Luomo, Dinosaur Jr., Against All Logic, Jeremih. I listen to Radio 4 (the BBC channel, not that band from whenever). I listen to Fortnite endlessly, the ambient sound of gun fire has become wallpaper in our place. The cars on the West Side Highway. 

The best thing about living in NYC is:
Its size. I live on a tiny piece of an island off mainland America. My New York stretches from the far west side of Manhattan up to 14th St. and across to Bowery. It’s perfect. There’s nothing I don’t have here, and I can walk to all of it.

The worst thing about living in NYC is:
I’m struggling to think of a single thing. I was about to say the traffic, but then I love sitting in the back of a car with music playing, the window open drinking in the fumes, watching the city go by. I’m fool for this place. I have no gag reflex for its hellishness.

What’s the last movie you saw in a theatre?
That movie about the ribbed water fish man who fell in love with a girl who worked in some government science facility or something. I can’t remember its name. It was terrible and someone told me yesterday it won some Oscars or something? People are so fucking stupid.

Are you on a first-name basis with anyone in your neighborhood (besides roommates, friends, etc.)?
Of course. Many many many.

Now Mia Kerin answers those six questions plus two more.

What are your favorite shoes?
White Champion sneakers from Payless.

What did you do last night?
Watched half a movie about a farmer.

The best thing about living in NYC is:

The worst thing about living in NYC is:
Too fast.

What makes a good croissant?
You got the wrong guy.

What are you listening to at the moment?
Broadcast, Jeremih, Janet & Jak Esim Ensemble.

What’s the last movie you saw in a theatre? 
Hereditary. It was really good. Right now I can’t sleep because I just saw it.

Are you on a first-name basis with anyone in your neighborhood (besides roommates, friends, etc.)?

And finally Lucas Mascatello does basically the same thing.

What are your favorite shoes?
Mephisto sneakers

What did you do last night?
I smoked pot in my backyard and carved a block of wood.

The best thing about living in NYC is:
Mania is a collective state of mind, not a stigmatizing personality trait.

The worst thing about living in NYC is:
I feel very aware of my limits as a person, the competition is exhausting